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Has anyone taken supplemental doses of 5HTP for a period of time and done any work with Tryptamines in that period. I think I might be experience a level of cross tolerance, but I don't want to say either way. Anyone else been here?
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Delaware
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Re: 5 HTP
Fri, June 25, 2004 - 3:14 AMThat shouldn't be the case. 5-HTP is converted into 5-HT (serotonin) in your brain, and I don't believe a serotonin tolerance is possible. Remember, it's always there. So whether or not you're taking 5-HTP, you're still going to have relatively the same level of tolerance. Also, 5-HTP itself is not a tryptamine, so the possibilty of cross tolerance to other tryptamines and this are highly unlikely. -
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Re: 5 HTP
Fri, June 25, 2004 - 5:16 PMummm. 5-htp is a tryptamine.... that's what the "tp" at the end of it stands for.
i think a cross tolerance is probably unlikely, but not entirely implausible. it is fairly likely though that taking 5-htp along with a tryptamine psychedelic could alter the effects, or act synergistically.
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Re: 5 HTP
Fri, June 25, 2004 - 7:26 PM5 htp ' 5- hydroxytryptophane' is the direct precurser (building block) for serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine). it will not interefere with any tryptamines, on the contrary it will help most people have a more pleasant experience. that said, tryptamines are medicines, that should not be taken with the pure intention of having fun or getting high, or they may at some point cause trouble.
the average person can take 5 htp on a daily basis for months, but as in all cases your body wll let you know if you need to stop or lower your intake.
100mg of 5 htp should be taken 4-6 hr after taking mdma and many other like phenethylamines, as it has been shown to provide a measure of protection from possible neuronal damage and it does help in re-establishing serotonin levels.
tyrosine is the direct precurser for dopamine( the prefered target of most tryptamines) and (500mg) can be taken to replenish after a tryptamine experience.
it is very good with lsd, before, during and/or after as it helps soothe the body of nervous jittery speedy like effects.
both 5 htp and dopamine are amino acids and i don't think you can take too much but some people feel a bit of nausea if they take more thean 100 mg of 5 htp on an empty stomache. ( some people feel a bit of discomfort with 50 mg of 5htp). -
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Re: 5 HTP
Sat, June 26, 2004 - 6:38 AMTrue.
I am friendswith a psychiatrist who used to prescribe LSD=25 in the late 1950s and early '60s when it was legal. He knows quite a lot about it. Indeed, he wrote an essay for a psychiatric journal called: "Mushrooms through a looking glass."
What he told me was that the first thing acid does is deplete serotonin from your brain. How much? I don't know, but it would be wise to take 5-HTP as a supplemet if you are going to indulge in hallucinogens. He was of an opinion that acid ought to be taken every three weeks instead of once every four days. One ought to give some time for the brain chemistry to return to normal. Good man, he is. I like him. There was a time when LSD was used to treat migraine headaches because the medical establishment thought that serotonin was somehow responsible for vascular headaches.
The same thing should apply to MDMA and other psychedelics. I know another doctor who worked with psychedelics, but not anymore. Psychiatrists used to love acid in my day. Reagan made it illegal and that put a damper on psychedelic research. This was done in the summer of 1966. Deukmejian made XTC illegal by signing some paranoid right wing bill during Regan's watch. This happened in 1985. XTC used to be sold in health food stores in the early eighties.
I will stop right here. This is a 5-HTP site and I don't want to get into radical politix. Kapiche? -
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Unsu...
Re: 5 HTP
Wed, June 30, 2004 - 10:33 PMthere is quite a bot of misinformation in this post.
5HTP cannot cross the blood brain barrier, it is processed in the liver. You'd be better off taking an SSRI after your trip if you feel depleted. This is more common with MDMA.
Ecstasy was never sold over the counter, unlike many narcotics. -
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Re: 5 HTP
Wed, June 30, 2004 - 11:02 PMI know that it was, but that happened before it was scheduled. I also know that GHB was sold in a health food store some time ago. I won't mention which one, but it did happen.
That 5HTP cannot cross the blood brain barrier is true. It has to be be decarboxylated into serotonin. I don't know about taking an SSRI after a trip if one feels depleted. Usually one has to take SSRIs for several days before its effect can be appreciated. If you have had a different experience with this, please let me know.
Happy trails ;)
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Re: 5 HTP
Thu, July 1, 2004 - 9:12 AMjenny q, i believe that you are quite misinformed. where did you get your info from? i get mine from medline, biochemistry texts and the fact that i am molecular biologist and biochemist who has studied this in depth. please let me know your sources as i would love to check them out, in case mine are wrong... :)
serotonin is made in the brain, not the liver, by 5 ht neurons. the starting material is tryptophan, which is then converted to 5 htp and then serotonin. the primary literature indicates that 5 htp is is converted into 5 htp in 5 ht neurons (in the brain). for this both tryptophan and 5 htp have to be able to cross the into the brain,as a matter of fact all amino acids need to be able to cross into the brain or it wouldn't be able to synthesize any of the 1000's of proteins that are needed for proper function!
mdma blocks the action of the enzyme that converts tryptophan into 5 htp for upto 4 - 5 days. this makes it so that your brain cannot synthesize more serotonin and replace the serotonin that is massively secreted while on mdma. research indicates that metabolites of serotonin and/or mdma may cause oxidative damage and destruction of the 5 ht neurons, though it hasn't been proven that this occurs in humans at recreational doses. what has been shown is the some people suffer the 'serotonin syndrome' after taking mdma and that 5 htp and ssri's help alleviate.
as a biochemist i reccommend talking 5 htp , 4-6 hrs after taking mdma and for some people for several days after, because it bypasses the block that mdma imposes on serotonin metabolism.
5 htp is an amino acid, a food, while ssri's are drugs that inhibit serotinon reuptake and have side effects of their own... so between taking a food suppliment with no known side effects or a drug with known side efefects, i'll always go for the natural way to replenish my brain. the choice is of course always yours :)
ecstasy(mdma) was sold over the counter for years, it was even available at bars in texas and it is not a 'narcotic', it's an amphetamine.
and while i'm on this rant. you shouldn't drink any alcohol 24 hrs before or after you take mdma, as it breaks down mdma into toxic amphetamine metabolites.
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Re: 5 HTP
Mon, July 5, 2004 - 8:26 PMRafaelO:
My apologies.
I was wrong about the 5-HTP not being able to cross the "blood-brain" barrier. I believe that my research is correct in other areas.My sources of information are the texts on biochemistry and the Journal of the American Chemical Society.
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Unsu...
Re: 5 HTP
Fri, July 16, 2004 - 8:51 AMRafaelO= i think you misunderstood pretty much everything i said in my post. or should i say, misinterpreted.
"ecstasy(mdma) was sold over the counter for years, it was even available at bars in texas and it is not a 'narcotic', it's an amphetamine."
i never implied MDMA was a narcotic. I said it was not sold OTC, "unlike many narcotics". in other words== MDMA was never sold over the counter, unlike opium, heroin, (even cocaine if you consider that a "narcotic" like law enforcement!) in various forms. Make more sense?
My background is in Integrative Medicine, working towards a combined PhD/ MD in community/ public health and holistic healing. My area of concentration is nutrition and ethnobotany, two fields where there is little crossover. I've been working in harm reduction for the past 6 years.
Yes I know serotonin is made in the brain. I dont know what in my post contradicts this. I said 5HTP- THE SUPPLEMENT- gets processed in the liver, because of extremely poor bioavailability. It would be a great supplement, if it actually was absorbed and cross into the brain enough to offer psychoactive effects. But that is just not the case from what little research has been done. It would be better to take tryptophan itself, which at least has 30% bioavailibility. I think what your not understanding is how the body absorbs nutrients and proteins~ not where they are to begin with.
We agree an SSRI will help serotonin metabolism after MDMA use. Personally, in theory, I would love if I found there to be a "natural alternative" to taking one. I look at the body holistically, unlike most in the medical profession, and make choices to live as "naturally" as I can. I eat organic, vegan, and try to avoid ANY unnecessary toxic chemical exposure. The question for me is a supplements effectiveness first~ so I choose the SSRI (side effects and all) at present. Perhaps in the future I will find a better alternative.
And to the question- "doesnt it take a few weeks for SSRI's to work?" Well, yes & no. Yes, it takes that long for them to reach full effectiveness. But they will counteract MDMA's 'serotonin syndrome' pretty well. I'm too tired to go into it right now... but I will if you'd like.
And if you want my sources after reading this reply, I'll give ya a short bibliography :)
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Re: 5 HTP
Sun, November 25, 2007 - 11:09 PMThat's crazy talk, anyone who takes 100-150 mg of 5htp will feel it, its strong stuff. Liver whatever- sounds like you are talking about taking seretonin or a tryptamine and the mao thing. SSRI are highly toxic to the body's endogenous seretonin production, its as bad or worse than mdma you'd just be digging yourself a deeper hole of seretonin depletion...Personally I prefer L-tryptophan combined with a b-complex -
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Re: 5 HTP
Sun, November 25, 2007 - 11:14 PM
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Re: 5 HTP
Sun, March 11, 2007 - 8:59 AM"5HTP cannot cross the blood brain barrier"
Actually every research study concludes that 5 htp deffinately can cross the bloodbrain barrior, and the presence of other amino acids does not interfear with it. Thus you may take it with foods and it wont compete for absorbtion.
It is probablt triptophan you were thinking of. -
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Re: 5 HTP
Sun, March 11, 2007 - 9:00 AMoops
I see this is redundant...pardon
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